At 06:42 PM 16/07/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Well I got an itch to look up the history of GPS hunting in the old
>archives I have and can say with certainty that Daniel Servatius
>first proposed and tested using a GPS receiver in regards to
>letterboxing on Sept 12 1998. I think (for better or worse) we were
>_way_ ahead of the geocaching crowd. Shortly after that he offered it
>for use by others, and shipped it off to one of the other list
>members. I'll have to dig a little more to see how it was actually
>used after that. The approach never caught on much, but it was there
>from almost the beginning!

As a geocacher who for the fun of it -- fascination with stamps but not
much more -- hybridizes his caches to hopefully increase traffic, from what
I undestand geocaching really only started up in May 3, 2000.



This was a couple of days after President Clinton removed the selective
availability for GPS units. This automatically increased accuracy by
virtue of an increase in signal quality, not GPS unit quality.

Before then, geocaching would have been extremely challenging; at best,
coordinates would have been a useful hint for letterboxing, since the
accuracy would have been the size of a football field. Or maybe two, side
by side.

http://www.geocaching.com/about/credits.asp includes a brief history of the
sport.

If anyone was geocaching before then, it wasn't too practical. This and
the accuracy of 3 to 20 feet depending on the cost of your unit explains
the phenomenal growth in the past year.



>---------

Don Buchan malak&pobox.com malak&malak.ca (&=@) www.pobox.com/~malak/
Mtl Que Can, Winemaking linx & archive, rec.crafts.winemaking FAQ,
firestarter FAQ, Scouting archive & Ask-A-Scout(er), Star Trek linx &
archive, Zee Svedish Cheff, Summer Camp selection, ICQ 100249895

on 7/16/01 4:48 PM, Don Buchan at malak@pobox.com wrote:

>
> Before then, geocaching would have been extremely challenging; at best,
> coordinates would have been a useful hint for letterboxing, since the
> accuracy would have been the size of a football field. Or maybe two, side
> by side.
>


well.... that's why only letterboxers used them then! It took that extra
ounce of intellect! :-)

TC <--- ducking for cover

At 04:50 PM 16/07/01 -0700, you wrote:
>on 7/16/01 4:48 PM, Don Buchan at malak@pobox.com wrote:
>
> >
> > Before then, geocaching would have been extremely challenging; at best,
> > coordinates would have been a useful hint for letterboxing, since the
> > accuracy would have been the size of a football field. Or maybe two, side
> > by side.
> >
>
>well.... that's why only letterboxers used them then! It took that extra
>ounce of intellect! :-)
>
>TC <--- ducking for cover

Why do you think I like geocaching more? It's easier than figuring out clues!

As I said, I mainly upgrade my geocaches because of a fascination with
stamps -- any kinds, so all mine are commercially produced stamps of simple
designs I can make in less than half an hour on my computer -- and that it
might increase traffic. :)




>---------

Don Buchan malak&pobox.com malak&malak.ca (&=@) www.pobox.com/~malak/
Mtl Que Can, Winemaking linx & archive, rec.crafts.winemaking FAQ,
firestarter FAQ, Scouting archive & Ask-A-Scout(er), Star Trek linx &
archive, Zee Svedish Cheff, Summer Camp selection, ICQ 100249895

I'm not interested in buying a GPS, though one of these days my mate and
I plan to score Thom Cheney's Brown's Camp box. As a general rule,
though, I am not interested such sophistication and I don't care about
geocaching. I'm out to seek the art and to see the beautiful places
letterboxing takes me.

Best regards,

Amanda Briles
The Paisley Orca

I just posted a news story about this on the Letterboxing
International site. Maybe Dan will see it one day, and know he was
ahead of his time. If so I hope he contacts me.
--
Regards,

Eric Mings

Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
Find everything letterboxing at your fingertips!

At 06:07 PM 16/07/01 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm not interested in buying a GPS, though one of these days my mate and
>I plan to score Thom Cheney's Brown's Camp box. As a general rule,
>though, I am not interested such sophistication and I don't care about
>geocaching. I'm out to seek the art and to see the beautiful places
>letterboxing takes me.

My first Geocache find had quite the vista. I expect many others do as well.

As for the art, beats geocaching every time. Unless it's a hybrid
cache. Like all or most of mine are and will be.

Beat me on the sophistication level.

As for the "simplicity" factor mentioned in a prior post, not all geocaches
are that easy to find. Look for mine, and unless you're looking 12 feet up
you won't find it. You only know that if you decode the clue that says as
much. Other than that it is admittedly easy to find. My first find was
challenging to find since it was about 5 feet below "solid ground" -- a
very rocky area with piled rocks and you find the cache in one of the large
crevices between rocks and in a little cave. It was an object lesson in
the warning that it sounds deceptively easy.


----------
Don Buchan malak&pobox.com malak&malak.ca (&=@) www.pobox.com/~malak/
Mtl Que Can, Winemaking linx & archive, rec.crafts.winemaking FAQ,
firestarter FAQ, Scouting archive & Ask-A-Scout(er), Star Trek linx &
archive, Zee Svedish Cheff, Summer Camp selection, ICQ 100249895

Geocaching or letterboxing, the find is only a tiny part of it. I haven't
geochached and only have limited lettterboxing experience but I feel the
travel to and from is what I like. The sites and the sounds far out weigh
and stamp or trinket I find in a box. I look at letterboxing as a way to get
out to new places I might not visit otherwise. The clues are fun and the
stamps are neat but they don't hold a candle to mother nature. (rant off)

Glenn




----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Lane"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxing GPS history 101


> I honestly dont get the point of geocaching, but then again I am a bit
> of a Luddite (not too much of one since this is being composed on a
> computer). I admit that I have not tried it. But it seems pretty
> simplistic- you walk until you hit the right spot and the numbers are
> correct. I have actually made use of GPS data professionally but I am
> not drawn to the sport. I am sure that I over simplify and I am not
> trying to start a flame war (if I wanted to do that I would have posted
> on the Geocache list). When GPS clues were first discussed I remember
> suggesting that if it is a box with a stamp and clues to find it then
> it is a letterbox. I think that both types of boxes can exist. My
> only fear is that GPS clues may come to predominate in which case it may
> become neccessary to separate clues and discussion of the GPS boxes and
> the traditional boxes into two areas of cyberspace. Just my 2c.
>
> Todd
>
>
> Don Buchan wrote:
>
> >
> > If anyone was geocaching before then, it wasn't too practical. This
> > and
> > the accuracy of 3 to 20 feet depending on the cost of your unit
> > explains
> > the phenomenal growth in the past year.
> >
>

Some reason you couldn't post it here?

Thanks

Glenn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Mings"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Letterboxing GPS history 101


> I just posted a news story about this on the Letterboxing
> International site. Maybe Dan will see it one day, and know he was
> ahead of his time. If so I hope he contacts me.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Eric Mings
>
> Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
> Find everything letterboxing at your fingertips!
>

Eric and others...it's kind of feeling like you are
considering using GPS more, as it's more of a
challenge for the serious letterboxers that seek the
thrill of competition...??? I am new to the
hobby/sport and have just recently joined this
listserve. I have planted one letterbox and found
none as of this moment, although I did search for
Tom's Sand Beach one this weekend. I have to say that
I have become totally caught up in this and am so
excited to have found something that gets me outdoors
with my husband. I would be really disappointed to
have to go the way of a GPS, rather than some of the
other fun ways of writing clues and finding the boxes.
What are others thinking about this? Linda (of Peter
and Linda's PetLinK)

--- Eric Mings wrote:
> I just posted a news story about this on the
> Letterboxing
> International site. Maybe Dan will see it one day,
> and know he was
> ahead of his time. If so I hope he contacts me.
> --
> Regards,
>
> Eric Mings
>
> Letterboxing International:
> http://www.letterboxing.com
> Find everything letterboxing at your fingertips!
>


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>Eric and others...it's kind of feeling like you are
>considering using GPS more, as it's more of a
>challenge for the serious letterboxers that seek the
>thrill of competition...??? I am new to the
>hobby/sport and have just recently joined this
>listserve.

I mentioned it before, but I guess it deserves some emphasis.
Personally, I intend to use traditional clues even when I use GPS
clues. For example my two rock springs boxes are combo letterbox and
geocaching boxes. Traditional clues and GPS coordinates are available
for both boxes. Even with traditional clues there are variations,
some boxes out there rely heavily on compass skills others rely
heavily on the ability to solve difficult riddles and yet others
require some knowledge of history or local lore. There is no one
right way to do it. I do agree that I certainly wouldn't want
letterboxing to be just GPS clues (or any other approach), and as
long as everyone has the freedom to make their own clues however they
see fit I am confident that will never happen.
--
Regards,

Eric Mings

Letterboxing International: http://www.letterboxing.com
Find everything letterboxing at your fingertips!

Not to worry Linda. No one is supporting a movement to embrace GPS as a
necessary means to finding boxes. There is some crossover but the bulk
of our clues are written solely for puzzle solvers. You will find,
after reading mail for a few months, that all sorts of topics come up
and this is good. People chime in and a concept gets aired. A few days
later a new topic comes up and is minced. Never be afraid to air your
opinion or make a contribution - all we ask is a spirit of curiosity,
contribution and politeness.
Susan
in-the-mountains-are-rainy-green-Vermont

Thank you for this message, Susan. Also, to Eric,
thank you for the clarification. I feel a great sense
of relief. Heck, maybe after awhile we will feel the
need to get into the electronics and give 'er a go! I
have another question. I have read a couple of times
about "trinkets" found in some letterboxes. I know
that I should "wait and see what I find," but I am ADD
and have such a hard time with that! ;-) What sorts
of things are left for people to find? I'd love to
include some treasures in the boxes that I plant, but
can't think of what they might be.... Also, somewhere
in my searchings, I have come across mentions of a
gathering....that sounds like fun..."who, what, when,
and where?" Thanks again. Linda

--- Susan/Erik Davis wrote:
> Not to worry Linda. No one is supporting a movement
> to embrace GPS as a
> necessary means to finding boxes. There is some
> crossover but the bulk
> of our clues are written solely for puzzle solvers.
> You will find,
> after reading mail for a few months, that all sorts
> of topics come up
> and this is good. People chime in and a concept
> gets aired. A few days
> later a new topic comes up and is minced. Never be
> afraid to air your
> opinion or make a contribution - all we ask is a
> spirit of curiosity,
> contribution and politeness.
> Susan
> in-the-mountains-are-rainy-green-Vermont
>
>


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